Class Rankings

ShockHawk22

ShockHawk22

Well-Known Member
As I am reading through multiple threads, I seem to see 2 common kinds of people. We recruit fine vs. we need to recruit better. One side claiming that our last few classes are pretty decent vs people saying otherwise. I got curious and started to look up out last 5 classes (players who will be on today's team). I wanted to use one site for consistency. However, I will be honest and say I went between rivals and 247 (whichever popped up first on my google search). The first number is our national recruiting rank, second big ten rank.

2013- 51/7
2014-56/12
2015-60/11
2016-47/9
2017-52/11

The national ranking weren't too surprising (until I looked at some of the teams ahead of us) but the Big Ten rankings were shocking. No Bueno...
 
What disappoints me regarding recruiting is over the first few years of KF's tenure, the staff hit Florida pretty hard. Banks, Jones, Cole, Barr, Hodge, Brown all came by way of Florida. But since Bielema's last recruiting handprints left the team (2005 season) so has the Florida pipeline. These are some of the best players at their positions in the KF era. Also "B" level type players like Miles, Allen, Paschal are from Florida too. Multiple year impact type players. Why stop recruiting there? Why not hire a guy who has strong Florida connections?

Interesting to note that Iowa beat Wisconsin in 2002, 2003, 20004, & 2005 with Florida players on the roster. During that span they also beat LSU and Florida in bowl games.

Since 2005, they've beaten Wisconsin only 3 times (2008, 2009, & 2015) and we don't need to be reminded of what their bowl games have been like lately.
 
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ShockHawk22 said:
As I am reading through multiple threads, I seem to see 2 common kinds of people. We recruit fine vs. we need to recruit better. One side claiming that our last few classes are pretty decent vs people saying otherwise. I got curious and started to look up out last 5 classes (players who will be on today's team). I wanted to use one site for consistency. However, I will be honest and say I went between rivals and 247 (whichever popped up first on my google search). The first number is our national recruiting rank, second big ten rank.

2013- 51/7
2014-56/12
2015-60/11
2016-47/9
2017-52/11

The national ranking weren't too surprising (until I looked at some of the teams ahead of us) but the Big Ten rankings were shocking. No Bueno...
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Shouldn't have posted this, a few folks are going to stroke out reading this.
 
OkstHawk said:
Shouldn't have posted this, a few folks are going to stroke out reading this.
Click to expand...

Oh God, you must have been talking about me.....I mean I'm just waking up from my "stroke out".....can you cover my Denny's shift tomorrow morning man?
 
As we know, Kirk doesn't care about recruiting rankings. Think he follows the Belichick blue print in that he's gonna bring in guys who fit his system and vision. BB doesn't have the greatest stars in the world but his system works, obviously.

Kirk, of course, hasn't had the level of success of BB yet his success has exceeded where you would think it would have been, based on recruiting rankings.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
As we know, Kirk doesn't care about recruiting rankings. Think he follows the Belichick blue print in that he's gonna bring in guys who fit his system and vision. BB doesn't have the greatest stars in the world but his system works, obviously.

Kirk, of course, hasn't had the level of success of BB yet his success has exceeded where you would think it would have been, based on recruiting rankings.
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I agree, this staff does a good job of developing players. However, wouldn't it be nice to develop some players whose basements weren't so low, and whose ceilings were higher?

I don't expect to compete with the Ohio states or michigans, but being bottom of the conference? That's putting us behind the 8 ball
Right off the bat.
 
ShockHawk22 said:
As I am reading through multiple threads, I seem to see 2 common kinds of people. We recruit fine vs. we need to recruit better. One side claiming that our last few classes are pretty decent vs people saying otherwise. I got curious and started to look up out last 5 classes (players who will be on today's team). I wanted to use one site for consistency. However, I will be honest and say I went between rivals and 247 (whichever popped up first on my google search). The first number is our national recruiting rank, second big ten rank.

2013- 51/7
2014-56/12
2015-60/11
2016-47/9
2017-52/11

The national ranking weren't too surprising (until I looked at some of the teams ahead of us) but the Big Ten rankings were shocking. No Bueno...
Click to expand...

No reasonable Hawkeye fan would say we shouldn't recruit better, especially certain positions. The debate comes to what level of recruiting improvement is a reasonable to expect. I personally would like to consistently be in mid to upper 30's, with an occasional bump higher. Depth of talent and WR continues to be the weakness. Conf rank should be 5-9 range. Out recruiting osu, mich, PSU isn't going to happen, and msu, wisc, nebby still have an edge with either recent success or perceived brand. 6th-8th should be doable regularly, even when a below avg year happens.
 
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MoseSchrute said:
Better than Iowa's, and that's all you need to know.
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Tennessee has had 2 top 5 classes and 3 top 20 classes in the last 5 years, and have another top 10 class currently.

Iowa 66% wins over the last 5 years for 26th best in D1 and tied for 17th best of all P5 teams
Tennessee 59% wins over the last 5 years for 51st best in D1 and tied for 37th best of all P5 teams
Wisconsin 76% wins over the last 5 years, tied for 6th best in all of D1 and P5 football teams.

Iowa's average recruiting ranking of 53rd and are 17th best in P5 in winning %
Tennessee's average recruiting ranking of 11th and are 37th best of all P5 in winning %
Wisconsin's average recruiting ranking of 42nd and have the 6th best winning % in all P5 football.

Iowa's finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Wisconsin finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Tennessee is finishing 40 spots in winning % lower than its rankings over the last 5 years.

Would you rather win "recruiting rankings" or games?
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
No reasonable Hawkeye fan would say we shouldn't recruit better, especially certain positions. The debate comes to what level of recruiting improvement is a reasonable to expect. I personally would like to consistently be in mid to upper 30's, with an occasional bump higher. Depth of talent and WR continues to be the weakness. Conf rank should be 5-9 range. Out recruiting osu, mich, PSU isn't going to happen, and msu, wisc, nebby still have an edge with either recent success or perceived brand. 6th-8th should be doable regularly, even when a below avg year happens.
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I agree with mid 30s. We should be in the conversation with Wisconsin, MSU, Nebby every year. Some years ahead, but obviously some we won't.
 
ShockHawk22 said:
I agree with mid 30s. We should be in the conversation with Wisconsin, MSU, Nebby every year. Some years ahead, but obviously some we won't.
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Finish in the 40's like Wisconsin and you can be a consistent winner. Heck we are finishing in the 50's and we have the 17th best P5 winning% over the last 5 years. Sure that could/should be better for Iowa, but lets face it, both Iowa and Wisconsin have found the niche of getting talented kids that others are passing on. You can't develop a block of iron into a NFL player.....You can only develop an NFL player into an NFL player. Iowa and Wisconsin know how to find talent that others miss.
 
deanvogs said:
Tennessee has had 2 top 5 classes and 3 top 20 classes in the last 5 years, and have another top 10 class currently.

Iowa 66% wins over the last 5 years for 26th best in D1 and tied for 17th best of all P5 teams
Tennessee 59% wins over the last 5 years for 51st best in D1 and tied for 37th best of all P5 teams
Wisconsin 76% wins over the last 5 years, tied for 6th best in all of D1 and P5 football teams.

Iowa's average recruiting ranking of 53rd and are 17th best in P5 in winning %
Tennessee's average recruiting ranking of 11th and are 37th best of all P5 in winning %
Wisconsin's average recruiting ranking of 42nd and have the 6th best winning % in all P5 football.

Iowa's finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Wisconsin finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Tennessee is finishing 40 spots in winning % lower than its rankings over the last 5 years.

Would you rather win "recruiting rankings" or games?
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Agreed, just a little consistent bump in talent, an by extension and more importantly depth of talent, would likely result in a proportionally much better w/l results.

KF's staff has always been good, if not great, at finding and developing "under rated" talent, they simply need to fill a few position gaps at a better and more consistent rate. My overall view is that even a minor improvement in key position groups would have a significant overall bump in results and future recruiting.

We do more with less, I would just like to have a little more to start with. A small increase in talent results in fewer "misses" and gives, in my view, more cushion....depth.

As an example, I could see a 10% overall improvement in talent depth, result in a 20% improvement in results.
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
Agreed, just a little consistent bump in talent, an by extension and more importantly depth of talent, would likely result in a proportionally much better w/l results.

KF's staff has always been good, if not great, at finding and developing "under rated" talent, they simply need to fill a few position gaps at a better and more consistent rate. My overall view is that even a minor improvement in key position groups would have a significant overall bump in results and future recruiting.

We do more with less, I would just like to have a little more to start with. A small increase in talent results in fewer "misses" and gives, in my view, more cushion....depth.

As an example, I could see a 10% overall improvement in talent depth, result in a 20% improvement in results.
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I don't disagree, I would love to see a better recruiting class each year. Yet some on here act like we have been a dog shit program for the last 5 years. After that disastrous '12 season we are tied for the 17th best winning % of all of P5 football.....yet if you listened to the the brain trust around here, you would think we are a bottom 5 P5 program currently.
 
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deanvogs said:
I don't disagree, I would love to see a better recruiting class each year. Yet some on here act like we have been a dog shit program for the last 5 years. After that disastrous '12 season we have the 17th best winning % in all of P5 football.....yet if you listened to the the brain trust around here, you would think we are a bottom 5 P5 program currently.
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While overall I do think our recruiting has been below where it should, and do believe it's a KF weakness, I also find the results impressive, strictly compared to recruiting rank.

That's not to say anything other than Iowa has massively out produced what it's recruiting rank says it should.

Given that trend, if it were to hold true, a consistent 30-40 ranked class could realistically result in a regularly top 15-20 squad, and an annual real shot at Indy most years. Which is my version of my ideal and realistic high expectations.
 
deanvogs said:
Tennessee has had 2 top 5 classes and 3 top 20 classes in the last 5 years, and have another top 10 class currently.

Iowa 66% wins over the last 5 years for 26th best in D1 and tied for 17th best of all P5 teams
Tennessee 59% wins over the last 5 years for 51st best in D1 and tied for 37th best of all P5 teams
Wisconsin 76% wins over the last 5 years, tied for 6th best in all of D1 and P5 football teams.

Iowa's average recruiting ranking of 53rd and are 17th best in P5 in winning %
Tennessee's average recruiting ranking of 11th and are 37th best of all P5 in winning %
Wisconsin's average recruiting ranking of 42nd and have the 6th best winning % in all P5 football.

Iowa's finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Wisconsin finishing 36 spots in winning % ahead of its rankings over the last 5 years. Tennessee is finishing 40 spots in winning % lower than its rankings over the last 5 years.

Would you rather win "recruiting rankings" or games?
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Completely irrelevant. It's not an either or proposition. But you don't get that.
 
Xerxes said:
What disappoints me regarding recruiting is over the first few years of KF's tenure, the staff hit Florida pretty hard. Banks, Jones, Cole, Barr, Hodge, Brown all came by way of Florida. But since Bielema's last recruiting handprints left the team (2005 season) so has the Florida pipeline. These are some of the best players at their positions in the KF era. Also "B" level type players like Miles, Allen, Paschal are from Florida too. Multiple year impact type players. Why stop recruiting there? Why not hire a guy who has strong Florida connections?

Interesting to note that Iowa beat Wisconsin in 2002, 2003, 20004, & 2005 with Florida players on the roster. During that span they also beat LSU and Florida in bowl games.

Since 2005, they've beaten Wisconsin only 3 times (2008, 2009, & 2015) and we don't need to be reminded of what their bowl games have been like lately.
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Charlie Strong---S.Florida
Lane Kiffin--Florida Atlantic
Scott Frost---Central Florida

The emergence of these schools the last decade or so hurts Iowa. I am not saying it is impossible, just more difficult to develop a pipeline than it was in the late 90's, early 2000's. It is easier for those 2nd and 3rd tier Florida guys to stay home.
 
deanvogs said:
Finish in the 40's like Wisconsin and you can be a consistent winner. Heck we are finishing in the 50's and we have the 17th best P5 winning% over the last 5 years. Sure that could/should be better for Iowa, but lets face it, both Iowa and Wisconsin have found the niche of getting talented kids that others are passing on. You can't develop a block of iron into a NFL player.....You can only develop an NFL player into an NFL player. Iowa and Wisconsin know how to find talent that others miss.
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Dean. Your logic on here really amazes me.

Bring up Tennessee, remember when we played them a few years back? Yikes.

Compare Iowa to UW? You really want to go there?

Bring up how good we've been over the last 4 years. Newsflash, we haven't been that good. We've taken advantage of super easy schedules, lost four bowl games, and got thumped in three of those four bowl games.

Look I'm not as gloomy as some. But I will certainly call out sunshine pumpers when I feel it's necessary.
 
OkstHawk said:
Completely irrelevant. It's not an either or proposition. But you don't get that.
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It's irrelevant for blue bloods and possibly perennial top 15-20 teams. I do think it's relevant for the 16-50 ranked crowd, where rank is extremely subjective based on differences between multiple say... 2.5 vs 3.5 ranked kids. I would contend our overall results vs. Recruiting rank would support that, overall.

Recent Bowl performances not withstanding:mad::oops:
 
OkstHawk said:
Completely irrelevant. It's not an either or proposition. But you don't get that.
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Serously man, you need to start following recruiting, so you can understand it. For instance the '13 Iowa class was "ranked" by rivals as the 51st best recruiting class. When SI went back and re ranked the 2013 recruiting class based on ACTUAL RESULTS ON THE FIELD, Iowa has the 9th best recruiting class in 2013 results wise. http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/02/08/re-ranking-2013-college-football-recruiting-classes

Why do we look back to the 2013 season and look at what our "estimated rank" was? I mean that is like looking back to this year pre season and pretending we were the #15 team......when our results fell short of that. We were NOT the #15 team this year, no matter what the "rankings" told us.

I get using the rankings to determine where we "stand" this year and maybe last year, when kids aren't actually contributing.....yet to pretend that the on field contributions that the '13 class made doesn't count, and it is still the #51 ranked recruiting class is just stupid. ACTUAL freaking results tell us it was a much higher ranked class than that.
 
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