CJF Signs with Kentucky

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
And I'd argue that getting to the Sweet 16 and conference titles was easier to do at a school like Iowa when they could keep their best players. I think about it a lot. Had Iowa had Cook his Sr. season. If Iowa could have Wieskamp next year? If Iowa would have played in the tournament in 20? What it Moss had stayed? Who knows what would have happened. It doesn't make the job easier at a school like Iowa, that I am sure of.

Iowa has been NCAA eligible in 6 out of the last 8 seasons - again, for a school like Iowa, that's impressive in this environment IMO. Also considering the decade of hoops that preceded it in Iowa City. It's definitely more of what we as Iowa fans are accustomed to and that's why a lot of Iowa fans aren't quite as trigger happy with Fran, because we look at it from a broader picture.

I'm all for your opinion as well, Fran needs a sweet 16 to suffice the fan base - he doesn't have it. I just don't think its a firable offense - I want continuity and growth even if it's small steps.
Also agreed. He is meeting minimal expectations in my mind with NCAA appearances. Also agreed, compared to Lackluster, the program is a competent upgrade.

At some point though, (probably not under Barta) he is going to face a similar fate as Dr. Tom if the program stagnates. Again, I was one of the few that wanted Dr. Tom to stay as I felt he checked all the boxes other than a Big Ten Title (or National Title).
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
But, the flip side is, it is Fran who is recruiting these players. Ultimately, it comes back to him if he can't make them happy and it effects the team's short and long range performance. Right or wrong. And, if he loses them, he needs to replace them to keep competitive balance. Not that is it 100% on Fran, but it could come back to bite him in the end if he can't retain and reload on players.

I think Fran would get a higher pass if he had a conference title, or Sweet 16 run or better. It could be stomached more.

He needs to break that glass ceiling and be prepared to be a savvy recruiter and reload if this is the new trend.
Oh please. Make them happy? Really?
 

dahlhawk

Well-Known Member
The interesting thing people aren't talking about is the fact that not all blue chip
recruits are happy at their school, teams like Iowa should be able to take some of these "unhappy' bench players off their hands. If Fran offers playing time and goes after impatient players on blueblood teams he might get some revenge. I think Ulis was unhappy at Kentucky about playing time and almost left, he then had a big senior year. The door can open both ways but Fran has to embrace it.
 

loesshillshawk

Well-Known Member
Well technically that may be true, but it was apparent who spent more time on the floor playing. I wonder if fans watched the off the ball movement of each player. I know it is the norm for people to follow the ball, but there are some high school coaches who would demand that their starting guards be out there on the floor moving around and even running from base line to base line if necessary. Just randomly pick any game and watch what Bo was doing out there.

Now to be fair I don't know what Fran expected from his guards, especially his sharp shooters. He may have told them to just stand out there a barely move around. There are defensive purposes for a coach wanting to do that, so that's why I can't be too critical of a player. However having said that I several times have particularly watch Bo and he just seemed to stand around a lot around the top of the key.

Next season most teams with a quick guard should be able to neutralize Bo by just staying inside his shirt. Someone is going to have to really step up and help out to put pressure on opposing teams so that they can't just focus on Bo defensively. If JoeW returns for another season that would help out like crazy and put our guard position in a much better position. Then the big picture will be focused on what out post position players will be able to do. You won't be able to replace an all American center but if the other players are contributing then you don't necessarily need an all American there. With good forwards and guards just a average center will do.

If JoeW doesn't return then it could be a very, very, long year for the Iowa basketball program. If he does return then Iowa could be halfway decent and finish in the top eight of the conference somewhere.

I am hoping for the best. Now with football................................ let's not go there. With two NFL level tight ends playing on the same team at the same time and one of the pre-season top rated QB's those coaches didn't have the offensive creativity to take advantage of those advantages ................. sigh. Doesn't sound real good at this point on the consistency of the QB position at this time and anyone who knows jack squat about offense know the QB is the spark plug on the offensive engine. What's with that anyways? No one was concerned about how consistent Chuck Long would be going into a season. Over the last fifteen years the defensive coaches and defensive players were the lunch pail workers of the program while the offensive coaches were over weight cheerleaders. Hard to watch a grossly overweight cheerleader do their thing.
Got my laugh for the day
 

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
That transfer culture isn't on Fran, it's rampant and not a Fran thing. Keeping them here is his job though. I completely agree....but at some point you have to say you've done all you can to help someone. Like you said, right or wrong, it's his problem to deal with, I'm just stating, it wasn't like this 20 or hell, even 10 years ago. Fran used to be able to keep his best players until the pay off cause it used to be difficult to leave your school, it's not anymore... so kids can use schools as stepping stones to better situations. Iowa's on the menu, they are likely never going to be off the menu - and the blue bloods are hungry. Every coach that Iowa hires from here on out is gonna be in the same boat.
I do think the transfer culture will benefit Fran/Iowa in recruiting HS kids
 

hawks23

Well-Known Member
The interesting thing people aren't talking about is the fact that not all blue chip
recruits are happy at their school, teams like Iowa should be able to take some of these "unhappy' bench players off their hands. If Fran offers playing time and goes after impatient players on blueblood teams he might get some revenge. I think Ulis was unhappy at Kentucky about playing time and almost left, he then had a big senior year. The door can open both ways but Fran has to embrace it.

I think this does make some sense for Fran to look for. Look at Juzang at Kentucky going to UCLA. I don't know if he left because of playing time or closer to home. The weird thing is even blue bloods are losing people who got playing time. 5 star guys.

Ulis played 2 years and went pro at Kentucky. He always had playing time. I still get your point though.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
I do think the transfer culture will benefit Fran/Iowa in recruiting HS kids

I think this is a valid point. With the exception of the truly elite HS players, why put the effort into finding the potential diamonds in the rough, when a coach can go to the portal and find established players that have already proven themselves at the college level. It's the NCAA version of building a team through free agency rather than doing it on draft day.

I completely agree that there will be programs that benefit from sticking with/and to the high school scene.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Now after chiding the kid for his lack of loyalty I will add this, Bohanan should never had started before CJ as CJ brings the ability of being able to attack the basket in a way Bohanan can’t do nor ever will. In that regard you can’t blame him for leaving? Nice move Fran.

CJ was injury prone. The guy was flirting with a walking cast every time he stepped on the court. An increase in minutes would have led to additional injuries and fewer games played. How do you increase the minutes of a guy that can't stay/get healthy?
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
I do think the transfer culture will benefit Fran/Iowa in recruiting HS kids
But tougher to keep em... For Iowa to do well they have to dive into getting transfers too. Getting Rebraca was huge after missing out on Robbins. Much to Frans chagrin he'll have to allocate time to scouting other teams kids and keeping an eye on the portal. Things have changed fast. Being last to this party wouldn't be in our favor
 

Dadman

Well-Known Member
CJ was injury prone. The guy was flirting with a walking cast every time he stepped on the court. An increase in minutes would have led to additional injuries and fewer games played. How do you increase the minutes of a guy that can't stay/get healthy?

I do not disagree, and I believe our most recent 2nd round exit was due to the injury bug, and not just CJ. But at the end of the year, everyone is beat up and bruised, and if the player is cleared and wants to be out there, you play them if it can help the team. Not so sure that scenario really played out, but I remember the 79-80 team, and even a hobbled Ronnie Lester demonstrated the difference even one player can make. Not that CJ compares to Lester, even remotely.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
I think this is a valid point. With the exception of the truly elite HS players, why put the effort into finding the potential diamonds in the rough, when a coach can go to the portal and find established players that have already proven themselves at the college level. It's the NCAA version of building a team through free agency rather than doing it on draft day.

I completely agree that there will be programs that benefit from sticking with/and to the high school scene.

Diamonds in the rough can be code for: I can't recruit higher-level players.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
Why can't y'all accept several things?

1. Not everyone likes any of us. Fran is no exception.
2. Fran is not for everyone. His boys are not for everyone. I'm sure JBo gets on some.
3. Players that seem to do well with Fran seem to have attitudes.
4. Fran's lack of success at the end of the seasons does have an impact.
5. Ragging on Moss at this point? Seriously?
6. Iowa's very white player base is very noticeable for recruits.
7. Transfers are here to stay. How many of you would commit to a 4-year job with low pay with a coach who at times can be a raving lunatic?
8. Fran still needs a good pt guard which some on here thought was silly and Iowa could be great without one. Well yes, it happened. The year was pretty darned good. And we are still mad because a great year ended due to lack of a point guard.
9. He had 3 players on the team not named JW and LG that could compete consistently at a high level on athleticism and 2 of them needed to play more (JT and Murray needed to play more and develop). The other one, CJF needed quicker players around him. CJF is the type of player that is going to get banged up because he is good, but not quick. Teams would not bang into him as much if they had to respect other players. He is an easy target. I expect him to do well at Kentucky.
 

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
But tougher to keep em... For Iowa to do well they have to dive into getting transfers too. Getting Rebraca was huge after missing out on Robbins. Much to Frans chagrin he'll have to allocate time to scouting other teams kids and keeping an eye on the portal. Things have changed fast. Being last to this party wouldn't be in our favor
I think Rebraca was a good get. And Fran definitely has to fulfill immediate needs via the Portal from time to time.

But I don’t think there will be 5 players a year that would consider Iowa and have an immediate impact. Eliminate those that will disrupt team chemistry and it’s slim pickings.

I like that Rebraca didn’t leave because of being disgruntled, etc. He only left because he couldn’t play there as a post grad student. We don’t need problems.

Stay loyal to the HS kids and more may come. I hope. We don’t have booster cash, year round warm temperatures, etc. But we can offer loyalty, player development, commitment, etc. Carve out a niche...
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Diamonds in the rough can be code for: I can't recruit higher-level players.

Good point... I meant those those recruits that stand out above the rest and play at a higher level then most...Not necessarily the kids that fly under the radar and over produce. My point was though do coaches put that kind of effort into finding the very good but not great high schoolers that may or may not make an impact at the next level, when they can hit the portal and find someone who's already proven they belong?
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Why can't y'all accept several things?

1. Not everyone likes any of us. Fran is no exception.
2. Fran is not for everyone. His boys are not for everyone. I'm sure JBo gets on some.
3. Players that seem to do well with Fran seem to have attitudes.
4. Fran's lack of success at the end of the seasons does have an impact.
5. Ragging on Moss at this point? Seriously?
6. Iowa's very white player base is very noticeable for recruits.
7. Transfers are here to stay. How many of you would commit to a 4-year job with low pay with a coach who at times can be a raving lunatic?
8. Fran still needs a good pt guard which some on here thought was silly and Iowa could be great without one. Well yes, it happened. The year was pretty darned good. And we are still mad because a great year ended due to lack of a point guard.
9. He had 3 players on the team not named JW and LG that could compete consistently at a high level on athleticism and 2 of them needed to play more (JT and Murray needed to play more and develop). The other one, CJF needed quicker players around him. CJF is the type of player that is going to get banged up because he is good, but not quick. Teams would not bang into him as much if they had to respect other players. He is an easy target. I expect him to do well at Kentucky.

I think you're missing the key part in all of this. It's not that he ended up transferring, it's the way he went about it. And as far as #9 goes...I'll say CJ being injury prone has about as much to him getting hurt as often as he did as being good. Not sure what you mean when you say they wouldn't bang into him as much if they had to respect other the players. He was our third option at best.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
Or pick your adjective. If he can't keep the talent in here he gets in the door, or replace them with equal or better talent when they leave.....well that is problematic is it not?
I will be polite. Your response was “misleading.”
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing the key part in all of this. It's not that he ended up transferring, it's the way he went about it. And as far as #9 goes...I'll say CJ being injury prone has about as much to him getting hurt as often as he did as being good. Not sure what you mean when you say they wouldn't bang into him as much if they had to respect other the players. He was our third option at best.

Teams don't have to play the Hawks honestly as we have few players the D has to worry much about. Play CJ tight and he gets hurt more. More stress on the body. Sort of like this. When Band of Brothers came out people raved about how few casualties Easy Co had compared to others. Actually they had the fewest amount of casualties of any rifle co in the 101 among paratroopers and gliders (the gliders if you take out parachute deaths). Reason? E 506 had the fewest contact with the enemy. Play CJ physical and he's going to get hurt. Teams can afford to play him physical as CF is not a threat to shoot or drive and overall team speed is bad. Also they can play up on him physically as he's not quick. Put him on a quick balanced team and CJ will possibly shine and not get hurt so much.
 
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