Big Ten West Race

guffus

guffus

Well-Known Member
The Big Ten West race is still a little muddled now but is a little more clear after today's games. The current stsndings

Wisc 6-2
IOWA 6-2
MINN 5-3
PURDUE 5-3

Wisc can clinch the division with a win over Minn or a loss by Purdue and a loss by Iowa.

Wisc would win a 2-way tie at 7-2 berween Iowa and Wisc. Wisc would win a 3-way tie at 6-3 between Wisc, Iowa, Minn. Wisc would not win a 4-way tie at 6-3 between Wisc, Iowa, Minn, Pur

Iowa can clinch with a win over Neb and a loss by Wisc.

If Iowa loses to Neb on Black Friday, then Iowa would be eliminated because Iowa can not win any possible tie breakers at 6-3. If Iowa beats Neb on Black Friday, then Minn is eliminated. Iowa still needs Wisc to lose because Iowa can not win a 2-way tie at 7-2 between Iowa, Wisc.

Minn can clinch the division with a win over Wisc and a loss by Iowa, and a win by Purdue. Minn can not win a 3-way tie at 6-3 but would win a 4-way tie at 6-3 between Minn, Wisc, Iowa, Purdue

Purdue is now eliminated but could still finish in a 4-way tie for 1st place at 6-3 if Purdue beats Ind, Iowa loses and Wisc loses. But Purdue would not win a 4-way tie at 6-3 between Purdue, Wisc, Minn, Iowa.
 
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Ok, tying for the division is fine, we can still call ourselves co-champs of the West and don't have to play Ohio State. Transitive properties say we would not fare well against them. Whiskey gets blasted by OSU and we take our 10-2 record (if we beat Nebby) and play a Clemson or other top tier team. It's all good. Would I still like to play at Indy and possible knock OSU out of playoffs, sure but it's a long shot.
 
Motigerhawk said:
Go Minny

I worried we wont beat Nebby
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The Nebby game will be very tough just like Minny and Illinois. But the hawks have the defense and special teams to slow Nebby down and give them long fields to work with.

Nebby made some bad plays today giving up an opening kickoff return TD and two 50+ yard TD runs. Martinez threw two pretty bad picks.

Iowa has a very good chance of winning this game by not turning the ball over, getting good pressure on Martinez as I think Iowa can stop their regular run game, and getting some really good running by Goodson et al.

The scary thing is the hawk passing game and if Koerner is still out and I heard Hankins will be out. Terry Roberts back would help but how rusty would he be???
 
uihawk82 said:
The Nebby game will be very tough just like Minny and Illinois. But the hawks have the defense and special teams to slow Nebby down and give them long fields to work with.

Nebby made some bad plays today giving up an opening kickoff return TD and two 50+ yard TD runs. Martinez threw two pretty bad picks.

Iowa has a very good chance of winning this game by not turning the ball over, getting good pressure on Martinez as I think Iowa can stop their regular run game, and getting some really good running by Goodson et al.

The scary thing is the hawk passing game and if Koerner is still out and I heard Hankins will be out. Terry Roberts back would help but how rusty would he be???
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We’ll have had two hours additional rest than nebby … in the bag!
 
dahlhawk said:
Ok, tying for the division is fine, we can still call ourselves co-champs of the West and don't have to play Ohio State.
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There are no ties. None.

Tiebreaker rules are set such that there is always a single winner. Calling ourselves “co-champs” would be stupid for starters, and not true anyway.

The one and only situation where Iowa wins is to beat nebraska if Wisconsin loses to Minnesota. Any other scenario results in Iowa losing the division.
 
We’re going to beat Nebraska soundly. Their offense thrives on beating pressure like what Wisconsin does. Martinez sucks and always has and he can’t and won’t make the intermediate throws to beat us.

I will not tolerate anyone giving little red any praise.
 
Fryowa said:
I e watched all of nebraska’s games this year. There’s probably very little chance we beat them.
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Ok I get that but we beat a team they lost to, they beat us head to head. We could have identical conference records, and we would have a better overall record. They go to Indy because of tie-breaker rules, I can feel like we were co-champs at least in my heart. If this plays out we can look a miserable performance against Purdue at home where the players, fans, and coaches drank the koolade lost the division.
 
dahlhawk said:
Ok I get that but we beat a team they lost to, they beat us head to head. We could have identical conference records, and we would have a better overall record. They go to Indy because of tie-breaker rules, I can feel like we were co-champs at least in my heart. If this plays out we can look a miserable performance against Purdue at home where the players, fans, and coaches drank the koolade lost the division.
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They wouldn’t be going to Indy because of the tie breaker rules, they’d be going because they won the division outright. Mental gymnastics cant make us co-division champs.

The rules as written specifically are designed to say, “there are no co-champs.”
 
Fryowa said:
They wouldn’t be going to Indy because of the tie breaker rules, they’d be going because they won the division outright. Mental gymnastics cant make us co-division champs.

The rules as written specifically are designed to say, “there are no co-champs.”
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Dammit Fryowa, let me have my participation medal! LOL Your right of course, and if we had won the division due to head to head I'd be screaming it from the mountaintops.
 
I’m getting to the point I would rather have Wisconsin beat Minnesota and us take down Nebraska. OSU is on a roll and neither Wisconsin or Iowa will beat them in Indy. Being 10-2 going into a bowl doesn’t sound half bad.
 
Fryowa said:
They wouldn’t be going to Indy because of the tie breaker rules, they’d be going because they won the division outright. Mental gymnastics cant make us co-division champs.

The rules as written specifically are designed to say, “there are no co-champs.”
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Correct,
The don't give out participation trophy's for second place. Either you won the division and move on to the title game or you did not.

Fry I agree with you as I am very concerned about this next game with Nebby as they have played very well and have a stout defense. Our defense may have to give us a lot of short fields or this could be 9-3 season. Not that, that is bad. A Christmas present would be for us to win it and Minnesota to pull the upset.

I would love to get a shot at Ohio State as it means you have won your division. When I hear fans suggest we are better off playing less of a team and maybe winning that said bowl game, instead of getting beat handily by Ohio State, I just shake my head in disbelief. So it would be better to lose out to Wisconsin and watch them get beat handily by Ohio State?

Ole Hayden said it right when he first got here. He needed to get the players and the fans to believe that "we can win" at Iowa. I am not sure what to think of this "we better play someone we have a chance of beating" mindset. It's got a familiar ring to it. That's an old song from the seventies.

Have we gotten so used to being am upper middle of the road big ten team that we think that's the best we can do? For several years before Hayden started to struggle with health issues and recruiting we were considered the third best in the conference when it was just one conference. Ohio State as usual was considered the best with Michigan and Iowa fighting it out for second place and Michigan getting a slight edge there. Penn State was close behind nipping on our heels. Wisconsin was an after thought.

Our defense has been more than adequate under both Parker's. Damn offense has been a ball and chain most years to this program. If our offense could just be in the top twenty-five year in and year out then Wisconsin would be an after thought again.
 
Fryowa said:
I e watched all of nebraska’s games this year. There’s probably very little chance we beat them.
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This is what I've been saying as well. I read somewhere that they have one of the best ratios of average yards gained per play vs. average yards given up per play. In other words, pretty good offense and pretty good defense.

Nothing that I saw yesterday of them versus Wisconsin made me feel better about getting a win next Friday. We couldn't do a thing on offense or defense against Wiscy. Nebraska still had a chance to win the game late in the contest.

I think our only hope in this game is to continue to improve our running game and control the clock. Keep their offense off the field, and wear down their defense.
 
haydensly said:
I think our only hope in this game is to continue to improve our running game and control the clock. Keep their offense off the field, and wear down their defense.
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Our only hope is multiple turnovers.

Martinez has won every game in which he didn’t have an interception.

Straight up nebraska is a better football team talent wise. Their Achilles heel is shitty mistakes because of horrible coaching. Their special teams mistake, offensive turnovers, and ridiculously bad clock management by Frost is what lost them all of their games. If we can force them into those mistakes we win. If we can’t, we lose by 30.
 
BigD said:
Correct,
The don't give out participation trophy's for second place. Either you won the division and move on to the title game or you did not.

Fry I agree with you as I am very concerned about this next game with Nebby as they have played very well and have a stout defense. Our defense may have to give us a lot of short fields or this could be 9-3 season. Not that, that is bad. A Christmas present would be for us to win it and Minnesota to pull the upset.

I would love to get a shot at Ohio State as it means you have won your division. When I hear fans suggest we are better off playing less of a team and maybe winning that said bowl game, instead of getting beat handily by Ohio State, I just shake my head in disbelief. So it would be better to lose out to Wisconsin and watch them get beat handily by Ohio State?

Ole Hayden said it right when he first got here. He needed to get the players and the fans to believe that "we can win" at Iowa. I am not sure what to think of this "we better play someone we have a chance of beating" mindset. It's got a familiar ring to it. That's an old song from the seventies.

Have we gotten so used to being am upper middle of the road big ten team that we think that's the best we can do? For several years before Hayden started to struggle with health issues and recruiting we were considered the third best in the conference when it was just one conference. Ohio State as usual was considered the best with Michigan and Iowa fighting it out for second place and Michigan getting a slight edge there. Penn State was close behind nipping on our heels. Wisconsin was an after thought.

Our defense has been more than adequate under both Parker's. Damn offense has been a ball and chain most years to this program. If our offense could just be in the top twenty-five year in and year out then Wisconsin would be an after thought again.
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Actually Michigan was considered the best during Fry’s years, Ohio State struggled with a few different head coaches. Iowa got Cooper fired after losing at home to Iowa and Earl Bruce got the boot and coached at UNI for a season. I believe Iowa’s winning percentage was better than the Buckeyes.in the Fry era. Michigan had a big winning streak against OSU. Even Illinoy with Champaign Tony won the conference. But by far Michigan had almost twice as many titles as Ohio State.
 
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