Big losses for Honda and Ford vehicle divisions
- Thread starter BigD
- Start date
BigD
Well-Known Member
I've noticed here in Utah that a lot of people are hanging on to their used cars longer than usual because of the cost of a new car and over all inflation cost............ especially at the grocery store. Even though the wife and I really enjoy being with our grandchildren we just shake our heads at the cost of raising a family in today's environment.
Repo's are also reaching a record high going back to 2008 crisis. There will always be people who try to bite off more than they can chew just so they think they look cool. See a pretty little car or huge pickup and jump in with out measuring it's long term affects on their budgets. Insurance on these over priced vehicles really ends up biting people in the ass along with the cost of maintenance.
Hopefully some people at some point in their life will realize the stupidity of worry about how they look to other people when out driving their over priced cars.
I am glad to see my thirty-two year old son and his wife, whom both have college degrees, focused on what's best for themselves , and their eleven month old son. I guess they were listening to what we were trying to teach them even though they had their blue-tooth head phones on a lot.
Repo's are also reaching a record high going back to 2008 crisis. There will always be people who try to bite off more than they can chew just so they think they look cool. See a pretty little car or huge pickup and jump in with out measuring it's long term affects on their budgets. Insurance on these over priced vehicles really ends up biting people in the ass along with the cost of maintenance.
Hopefully some people at some point in their life will realize the stupidity of worry about how they look to other people when out driving their over priced cars.
I am glad to see my thirty-two year old son and his wife, whom both have college degrees, focused on what's best for themselves , and their eleven month old son. I guess they were listening to what we were trying to teach them even though they had their blue-tooth head phones on a lot.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Nothing sets you farther back than car and student loans. People who have car loans their entire life deserve it. People don't realize how much they are spending for those things.
Westernhawk
Well-Known Member
Good points. New cars are incredibly expensive now, and getting a large loan for most of that amount is a ball and chain. Cars are, of course, depreciating assets.
It's a bit of a shame that college is insanely expensive these days. I was able to get my undergrad degree at Iowa at a time when college at a state school was really pretty affordable with minimal debt. Now, it's a tough situation and really limiting for people who come from families with modest incomes.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I've got two freshman in college at different schools right now. It's absolutely horrible and at a point where you gauge is it really worth it compared to a tech/service degree. It's absolutely out of control just like many things are at this point such as, home prices, car prices. Hell, even tickets to a pro or college game. When does it all just come to a head and we are all screwed?
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
When idiots set the market out of everyone's range.
Or when capitalism fails.
Every dystopian movie, book, and song of the last century has predicted the end of capitalism.. And the war over the remaining resources. And what happens after.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
As far as autos go...
I bought a new Hyundai Sonata in 2005 for about $21K/cash. I drove it for ten years/156K miles, then
In 2015 I bought a slightly used (15K miles) Kia Soul for $16K/cash and drove it for 10 years/233K miles, then
In 2025 I bought a new Kia Seltos for $32K/cash...and...well...you get the picture...
New cars are great, but you have to be smart about things.
Warning political point....the (previous) gov't mandate of driving EVs (only) was insane.
Resetting the EV strategy has cost several auto companies billions.
Let the market decide.
I bought a new Hyundai Sonata in 2005 for about $21K/cash. I drove it for ten years/156K miles, then
In 2015 I bought a slightly used (15K miles) Kia Soul for $16K/cash and drove it for 10 years/233K miles, then
In 2025 I bought a new Kia Seltos for $32K/cash...and...well...you get the picture...
New cars are great, but you have to be smart about things.
Warning political point....the (previous) gov't mandate of driving EVs (only) was insane.
Resetting the EV strategy has cost several auto companies billions.
Let the market decide.
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Westernhawk
Well-Known Member
"The market" isn't really a true free market in late stage capitalism. A few big players want to keep things as they are (petrol industry being one of them) so I would argue the market isn't really free at all.
Also, in my city EVs have already reduced air pollution (a significant cause of morbidity and mortality) by over 10%. There are bigger issues sometimes at play, IMHO.
Correction/edit: I did more research and the improvements are a lot less than 10%. Maybe a little less than 5%.
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Fryowa
Administrator
Have you balanced that with the increase in CO2 from electrical generation that goes into those batteries? Electricity isn't just created out of thin air and there isn't extra capacity in the grid to charge those batteries. It comes in the form of increased load and hence increased emissions. The emissions that went into the production of the windmill towers and the distribution systems from said windmills? The diesel that was burned by excavators and bulldozers and cranes and concrete trucks that had to mine the materials to make them? The diesel burned by the armies of semi trucks that haul the windmills and everything that builds them, maintains them for the life of the equipment? I've worked on 13 different windmill field job sites myself. No free lunch.
EVs themselves are a cleaner form of transportation, but creating them and the systems that support them are not. And not by a LONG shot is all the electricity that goes into charging EV batteries comeing from renewables. The vast majority of it comes from burned coal.
As someone who worked quite a while in the electrical distribution field you could sway my opinion if said electricity came from nuclear plants. Then you'd have something. But nuclear generation is 1) a small percentage of generation, and 2) nuclear power isn't something you can dial up on a meaningful scale in 20 or even 30 years.
Until nuclear power becomes the significant source of power generation, EVs are a wash at best in emissions. Unless maybe you can instantly come up with a way to produce and maintain renewable infrastructure. Hopefully it gets there some day, fusion generation is definitely not science fiction, but it's many, many decades away. EV use right now and as far as we or our kids can see in the future, is a placebo.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Not that simple though. Not to make this really a political thread, but this seems to be a worldwide problem not just for countries that have capitalism. It's also an issue with countries that do socialism, communism, etc.. Venezuela not doing well. Cuba not doing well. Hell, even UK not doing well. Again, this is worldwide. Countries have never taken on the debt/deficit that they currently have. Just wondering when it all just comes to a head when everyone is so hard off anarchy happens. I mean our banking and retirement funds are supposed to be protected. But, are they if shit really hits the fans?
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Agree, it all comes down to the resources, in particular oil, natural gas, etc.. As apparent with the Iran War, it ALL comes down to oil and the movement of it. The markets adjust to that.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I wonder what we are going to do if the world is 80% EV and have to get rid of the vehicles when they expire. IMO, that right there presents a huge issue as you can't just throw in a dump. There is always a downfall to any kind of energy.
What city are you living in and who is the group that provided the data or numbers? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a group that promotes EV, whether for social reasons or an interest in the investment. I have a difficult time believing that in the short time that EV's have been on in our lives that they could have data to support that claim. Typically, research takes years to look for trends (long term data) and many research projects at least for special studies such as for health conditions need thousands of study cases.
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MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Windmills are a horrible return on investment with what it takes to build them and the maintenance on them. Lifespan, etc..
Gander Hawk
Well-Known Member
There was no federal "EVs only mandate."
Seth53
Well-Known Member
I'll stand somewhat corrected.
50% EV by 2030.
75% by 2032.
Add in the 7 billion wasted on EV infrastructure (charging stations)...it was a classic over reach.
And California was aiming for 100% EVs (only) sold by 2035. Crazy.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-green...not at all.
I have installed seven solar systems on various properties I own with three in the pipeline for 2026.
Financial gain for me...of course. But I also strongly believe in the solar concept.
Wind power....waste of money. Negative environmental impact.
Government over reach regarding what I can and cannot buy...don't get me started.
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Seth53
Well-Known Member
EVs are somewhat logical if they're used for circular patterns....bus routes, post office, FedEx...where the vehicles can return to home base to recharge.
Or, if you have a home charger.
But try mapping out a trip, say a rural trip, for 500-1000 miles and see how much of a hassle it would be.
And as Fry has accurately pointed out, coal makes up a majority of electrical supply, so re-charging uses the same methodology to "get your juice" as your home/business. No advantage. Zero sum game.
Will EVs eventually out number ICE vehicles...maybe. Once the grid can sustain all the demand, once charging can go from 20%-100% in ten minutes, once people figure out what to do with the batteries, once the product doesn't horribly depreciate, once the true range of EVs can accurately match ICE range (especially in cold weather), once the "new technology bugs" can be worked out, on and on. Lots of hurdles to overcome.
Or, if you have a home charger.
But try mapping out a trip, say a rural trip, for 500-1000 miles and see how much of a hassle it would be.
And as Fry has accurately pointed out, coal makes up a majority of electrical supply, so re-charging uses the same methodology to "get your juice" as your home/business. No advantage. Zero sum game.
Will EVs eventually out number ICE vehicles...maybe. Once the grid can sustain all the demand, once charging can go from 20%-100% in ten minutes, once people figure out what to do with the batteries, once the product doesn't horribly depreciate, once the true range of EVs can accurately match ICE range (especially in cold weather), once the "new technology bugs" can be worked out, on and on. Lots of hurdles to overcome.
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MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Your not serious, are you? Certainly was.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
Right on. Biden et Al was pushing for and mandating EVs. Not 100% like California, but certainly 50-75%. Classic government over reach
Fryowa
Administrator
There is not even CLOSE to enough electrical capacity in the United States’ grid to support even 25% nation-wide EV usage. And that’s 25% of non-commercial vehicles. Take 25% of non-commercial vehicles and switch them to EVs, and the entire nation goes black instantly. Less than that actually. But “we’ll worry about that later because it needs to happen…”
It’s like California’s ridiculous plan to go to rail travel. Sounded like a great idea, nobody even remotely planned it (they just said they were going to do it to get votes…”we’ll worry about how later,” and then it failed in the most epic, embarrassingly hilarious way possible. Newsome will tout how they’re laying track and blah blah blah, but if you look at their plans the major part of it has flopped and fallen by the wayside. That’s what they do to get votes. Over promise, under deliver. And by under deliver I mean effectively scrap the entire thing.
Instead of 2020 it’s now estimated (by the politicians who promised it) at 2038 before even a tiny, minuscule portion gets completed, with a fraction of the capacity that even that small portion was promised. $200 billion in cost for that, which is $5,000 per resident. Not taxpayer, RESIDENT. Man woman and child. People living on the Oregon border who’ll never use it. Net loss financially, almost no emissions reduction because it’s been scaled down so far, and when was the last time a politician hit a date they said they would? 2038 will turn into 2048, then 2058, and on and on. Sinking billions and billions and billions of dollars into something they just said to get votes and will do nothing to solve any real problems.
For the record I am not a republican, not a MAGA, not anything. I hate both sides equally for anyone out there thinking I’m just spewing hate at lefties.
