All-KF team: Center

C

CP87

Well-Known Member
I was thinking of going with all interior OL, but OC is pretty unique. Who is our #1?

I think we have had 3 1st team AA centers under KF:
Bruce Nelson
Tyler Linderbaum (consensus; Rimington award winner; also won B1G OL of year)
Logan Jones (consensus; Rimington award winner).

These same 3 guys were the only All-B1G center under Ferentz.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't feel very qualified to judge OL play, so I mostly go by accolades. Another interesting discussion besides who is #1 of these three: what other C's weren't necessarily AA worthy, but you remember fondly?
 
My guess is Brian was pretty universally beloved around here, right up until the point he became OC. Now, he will never be viewed the same.

He was the Ferentz that had the subsidized housing deal though, right?
 
I will go with Lindebaum for #1 but the one that intrigues me is James Daniels.

Younger brother of Leshun. Played guard as freshman. Switched to center as sophomore. Was developing into maybe something special but left early for NFL draft with mediocre results in the pros.

You get the feeling James was either too smart for his own good, or maybe he just thought he was smarter than everybody. When the racial stuff came out in 2020, James was one of the ex-Hawkeyes to speak out.

So I wonder sometimes. Was his development helped or hurt by his attitude and his intelligence?
 
guffus said:
I will go with Lindebaum for #1 but the one that intrigues me is James Daniels.

Younger brother of Leshun. Played guard as freshman. Switched to center as sophomore. Was developing into maybe something special but left early for NFL draft with mediocre results in the pros.

You get the feeling James was either too smart for his own good, or maybe he just thought he was smarter than everybody. When the racial stuff came out in 2020, James was one of the ex-Hawkeyes to speak out.

So I wonder sometimes. Was his development helped or hurt by his attitude and his intelligence?
Click to expand...

I don't think you can be too smart or too thoughtful for life...but you definitely can be for football. A certain level of impulsiveness and reckless disregard help.

Not that I think that was necessarily an issue with James Daniels. I can never remember hearing anything about attitude, he seemed like a Hawk through and through. He returned to Iowa to graduate after leaving early for the NFL:

1771525716422.png

I don't know him, but knew his brother a bit, who was a very good dude. And they come from a great family. I commend him for speaking up on the racial issues in 2020, that was not an easy thing to do, and he did so thoughtfully.

His mediocre NFL career has been due to injuries. When he has been healthy, he has been an NFL starter. After his rookie deal, he has signed 2 different 3-year deals worth about $25 million each. But he has a season ending torn pec in 2020, a season ending torn Achilles in 2024, and another season ending torn pec in 2025.

1771526102535.png


I am glad you brought him up, he is one of those players that slipped my mind. He played fairly extensively as a true freshman in that 2015 season, including making his first start on the road at ranked NW when our OL was decimated by injury. He helped Wadley rush for over 200 yds that day. He played both OG and OT for us, which is pretty impressive as a true freshman.
 
I see James Daniel's was the very first NFL player to wear one of those special helmets with the extra cushion. So I guess he is willing to disregard the cool factor and say I am going to wear this dorky helmet to protect my brain regardless of how I looks.

With that said, I have no idea how strong the evidence is for these special helmets and the real reason nobody else seems to be wearing them? Are they uncomfortable? Do they limit your mobility or speed or vision? I know nothing about them. So I am guessing at the reasons players are not wearing them.
 
CP87 said:
I was thinking of going with all interior OL, but OC is pretty unique. Who is our #1?

I think we have had 3 1st team AA centers under KF:
Bruce Nelson
Tyler Linderbaum (consensus; Rimington award winner; also won B1G OL of year)
Logan Jones (consensus; Rimington award winner).

These same 3 guys were the only All-B1G center under Ferentz.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't feel very qualified to judge OL play, so I mostly go by accolades. Another interesting discussion besides who is #1 of these three: what other C's weren't necessarily AA worthy, but you remember fondly?
Click to expand...
Linderbaum has to be #1. I think he will be in the NFL Hall of Fame someday.
 
guffus said:
I see James Daniel's was the very first NFL player to wear one of those special helmets with the extra cushion. So I guess he is willing to disregard the cool factor and say I am going to wear this dorky helmet to protect my brain regardless of how I looks.

With that said, I have no idea how strong the evidence is for these special helmets and the real reason nobody else seems to be wearing them? Are they uncomfortable? Do they limit your mobility or speed or vision? I know nothing about them. So I am guessing at the reasons players are not wearing them.
Click to expand...

So far, the evidence does not really indicate they are effective.

No changes in head/helmet kinematics (peak linear or angular accelerations) when wearing the caps.

Efficacy of Guardian Cap Soft-Shell Padding on Head Impact Kinematics in American Football: Pilot Findings - PMC

Sport-related concussion prevention strategies in collision sports are a primary interest for sporting organizations and policy makers. After-market soft-shell padding purports to augment the protective capabilities of standard football helmets and ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No reduction in incidence of concussions for Wisconsin HS players wearing the caps during practice.

www.med.wisc.edu

Football helmet covers do not reduce concussions for high school players - School of Medicine and Public Health

www.med.wisc.edu www.med.wisc.edu

If you look at just basic lab testing of energy absorption, they seem like they should help.

Football Helmet Shell Add-On Testing

Overview of polo helmet test report
www.helmet.beam.vt.edu www.helmet.beam.vt.edu

But when you move things to a human head in a dynamic and variable environment, so far the evidence is lacking. Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is no indication that they cause harm, so choice to wear is not unreasonable.
 
CP87 said:
So far, the evidence does not really indicate they are effective.

No changes in head/helmet kinematics (peak linear or angular accelerations) when wearing the caps.

Efficacy of Guardian Cap Soft-Shell Padding on Head Impact Kinematics in American Football: Pilot Findings - PMC

Sport-related concussion prevention strategies in collision sports are a primary interest for sporting organizations and policy makers. After-market soft-shell padding purports to augment the protective capabilities of standard football helmets and ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No reduction in incidence of concussions for Wisconsin HS players wearing the caps during practice.

www.med.wisc.edu

Football helmet covers do not reduce concussions for high school players - School of Medicine and Public Health

www.med.wisc.edu www.med.wisc.edu

If you look at just basic lab testing of energy absorption, they seem like they should help.

Football Helmet Shell Add-On Testing

Overview of polo helmet test report
www.helmet.beam.vt.edu www.helmet.beam.vt.edu

But when you move things to a human head in a dynamic and variable environment, so far the evidence is lacking. Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and there is no indication that they cause harm, so choice to wear is not unreasonable.
Click to expand...
Bike helmets as well. There's actually evidence that bike helmets sticking so far out from the side of your head increases leverage on side impacts and cranks your neck harder when you hit the pavement. I read a couple of the studies (I do a lot of cycling and don't have a social life), and at least one of them was started because someone found evidence that there have been several fatalities of helmeted riders where the impact wasn't what killed the rider, it was a fracture where the spine meets the base of the skull. Like a Dale Earnhardt injury.

I'm not saying bike helmets are bad or these big bubble football helmets are bad, just that there's a lot more than meets the eye with stuff like this. What looks safer isn't always safer.
 
Fryowa said:
Bike helmets as well. There's actually evidence that bike helmets sticking so far out from the side of your head increases leverage on side impacts and cranks your neck harder when you hit the pavement. I read a couple of the studies (I do a lot of cycling and don't have a social life), and at least one of them was started because someone found evidence that there have been several fatalities of helmeted riders where the impact wasn't what killed the rider, it was a fracture where the spine meets the base of the skull. Like a Dale Earnhardt injury.

I'm not saying bike helmets are bad or these big bubble football helmets are bad, just that there's a lot more than meets the eye with stuff like this. What looks safer isn't always safer.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I had never heard that particular argument. Seems like maybe an edge-case and that on balance helmets are probably positive? But as you said, everything is a bit more complicated then we like to think.
 
CP87 said:
Interesting, I had never heard that particular argument. Seems like maybe an edge-case and that on balance helmets are probably positive? But as you said, everything is a bit more complicated then we like to think.
Click to expand...
Also, a huge part of head injuries, especially in football is the whiplash and movement of the brain against the inside of the skull. You get hard and fast enough the additional padding those helmets offer aren't really going to do much with the speeds the guys play at now.

OR in the cases where guys are going to the ground and their neck snaps and hits the back of the head against the ground. There may be some more protection from the repetitive "lower" speed contact on the lines but that would be about it. Would be an interesting study to see how energy absorption to the back of the head in turf vs grass fields varies.
 
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