Aaron Graves Return?

Drew Stevens is also in this same situation, but he has been named the Commander's FG kicker, so no way he is returning to school.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
It wouldn't likely work that way. You generally cannot get in trouble by relying upon a court order. The orders usually say that the NCAA cannot retaliate or threaten to retaliate if the order is overturned by an appellate court. By time that would happen, the season is usually over. That's why its so hard for the NCAA to keep things uniform. A hometown judge issues an order, the NCAA has to follow it, and by the time it gets reversed the bell has been rung.
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I hope you're right.. Like I said that'd just be Iowas freaking luck with how anything ever seems to go that we get a guy like that to come back and it blows up in their face.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
I don't think it is too hyperbolic to say that Graves return could be the difference between 8-4 and 10-2. Most of us think the offense is going to be pretty good this year. Special teams is a concern, but I think we will be fine on punting and maybe shaky field goal kicking leads to Riverboat Gambling Kirk to return. The worry is the defense, and specifically the interior DL. But, you throw in an all conference guy who has been getting bigger, better and stronger in an NFL camp, pair him with Hawthorne and some DE that have a lot of raw talent, and suddenly DL is looking pretty salty. LBs are talented and deep. And in Parker I trust in the secondary. I have never donated to NIL causes, but I would throw some cash in the pot to get Graves back into the fold.
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This is exactly where I'm at. Defensive line, particularly the interior, is our weakest link.

Simply due to inexperience, I would say that CASH is another. For our defense to shine, two things ideally have to happen. 1. Getting consistent pressure from the front four, and, 2. Impact plays from the CASH position. It will be critical to get that solidified, hopefully without having to move Lutmer. Losing Entringer had a domino effect here. Whoever it is, he has to have great instincts and great read-and-react ability.

As for Graves, 10-2 may be a bit optimistic. I'd go 8-4 without (with some nail-biters), and a solid 9-3 with.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
Yeah, I don't put too much stock in what Chad has said on this. There is no benefit to having speculation out there. So pretty easy for someone in the program to merely tell him "no real legs to this."

I think there are very, very few scenarios in which Kirk would consider this. But I think this might be one of them.
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Leistikow has been on the beat for a long time. It's not like him to push something out from a single-source low level staffer. It was probably credible at the time. It is possible they shifted their thinking and decided to pursue this.
 
haydensly said:
Leistikow has been on the beat for a long time. It's not like him to push something out from a single-source low level staffer. It was probably credible at the time. It is possible they shifted their thinking and decided to pursue this.
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Elliot Clough at HI was quoted today as saying conversations have definitely occurred with the agent. The ball is clearly in Graves court.
 
BigTen trying to kill this in the cradle. IMO, this changes nothing. Any kid wanting to challenge this now just has to sue two entities before a hometown judge.

I respect that the conference is trying to protect the game. I get that. This is similar to what the Big12 did when that gambling QB thing came down. That said, what I don't like is if the SEC is going to allow this, then the Big10 should too just as a matter of equity.

 
NorthKCHawk said:
BigTen trying to kill this in the cradle. IMO, this changes nothing. Any kid wanting to challenge this now just has to sue two entities before a hometown judge.

I respect that the conference is trying to protect the game. I get that. This is similar to what the Big12 did when that gambling QB thing came down. That said, what I don't like is if the SEC is going to allow this, then the Big10 should too just as a matter of equity.

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That is true, but I don't see Kirk or Beth wanting to make those waves and having that distraction going on. Rhule, Day, Lanning, sure. But I don't think KF will want to trudge that road during the season.
 
Fryowa said:
That is true, but I don't see Kirk or Beth wanting to make those waves and having that distraction going on. Rhule, Day, Lanning, sure. But I don't think KF will want to trudge that road during the season.
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As I posted earlier in this thread, I agree that this does not seem like a very Iowa thing to do. That said, Graves is worth it, IMHO. What is the conference going to do, really? And, I guess more to the point is that KF actually doesn't need to get into the mud. All he has to do is tell Graves' agent, "hey, its up to you to find the money, but here is who you may want to call. If you get Aaron eligible through a court order, I will follow the order and treat him like any other eligible player. But, its your show to get him on campus. I can't wade into this mix given the climate."
 
haydensly said:
Leistikow has been on the beat for a long time. It's not like him to push something out from a single-source low level staffer. It was probably credible at the time. It is possible they shifted their thinking and decided to pursue this.
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I've known Chad a long time. His quote was he was "told not to read much into those rumors." I think if Kirk wasn't interested it'd be a definitive response from someone inside the program.

At this stage, it is a negotiation. Neither side wants to tip their hand. Graves has options. If he gets cut, the practice squad is a likely landing spot. Or maybe another NFL team has him on its radar and is waiting to see if he gets cut so that they can sign him to the 53 man roster. Or maybe Texas Tech swoops in with $2M in guaranteed money.
 
If iowa does not want the drama, could Graves consider playing for somebody else? I bet LSU would be willing to let him play.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
That is not going to save them right now. Candidly, this is a very unusual situation that should not be replicated. The NCAA should have grandfathered these kids into the new 5 for 5 rule and didn't. Home town judges are forcing them to do so. This will not be an issue next year. However, that is not to say some other weird situation will not come up next year. This is the wild wild west.

Hey, if it takes something like this to get the NFL behind legislation to regulate college athletics, I am fine with that. College sports needs guard rails, and Congress is the only entity that can really do that and make it stick. The NCAA is at the mercy of the hometown judges.
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Wild Bill Hickok - Gunfighter of the Wild West
 
NorthKCHawk said:
As I posted earlier in this thread, I agree that this does not seem like a very Iowa thing to do. That said, Graves is worth it, IMHO. What is the conference going to do, really? And, I guess more to the point is that KF actually doesn't need to get into the mud. All he has to do is tell Graves' agent, "hey, its up to you to find the money, but here is who you may want to call. If you get Aaron eligible through a court order, I will follow the order and treat him like any other eligible player. But, its your show to get him on campus. I can't wade into this mix given the climate."
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So would both Iowa and Graves need to sue the Big Ten? Depending on if the SEC comes out with a similar policy, Kiffin and LSU might be headed that way too (i.e. suing its conference).

Maybe Iowa sits back and sees if Ohio State or Nebraska makes any moves, then jumps on board with the outcasts and brings Graves in. This is new, new Kirk after all. He's cool with the forward pass, doesn't even know the name of his punter, and lets Mary post pics on her Instagram of him drinking his morning coffee on the back deck in his PJs.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
So would both Iowa and Graves need to sue the Big Ten? Depending on if the SEC comes out with a similar policy, Kiffin and LSU might be headed that way too (i.e. suing its conference).

Maybe Iowa sits back and sees if Ohio State or Nebraska makes any moves, then jumps on board with the outcasts and brings Graves in. This is new, new Kirk after all. He's cool with the forward pass, doesn't even know the name of his punter, and lets Mary post pics on her Instagram of him drinking his morning coffee on the back deck in his PJs.
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I thought I read somewhere that Indiana has already grabbed a guy back but I'm not sure anybody know? ?
 
The Big 10 and SEC have both unanimously passed rules that would prevent Graves and similar guys from coming back to college after turning pro. LSU is the worst offender, so I will be interested in whether they challenge this. I doubt the school will. Hell, they have a kid coming in to play MBB that spend several years playing in the G league. The slippery slope of failed pros falling back to college is bad for the sport and the conferences are taking a hard line. While I would love to see Graves back in IC, overall, this is a good thing.

To answer a Swirl, I don't see any conference school challenging the rule. Their ADs/Presidents have agreed to the rule, so who at the school can challenge it? No, the schools will stay out of it.

But, the issue is not over. I mean, these kids sued the NCAA and were successful in getting injunctions. What is to stop them from suing the NCAA and the SEC in court to enjoin these rules? It could happen, but its getting awfully close to season start. I think the timing of this makes things difficult.

For Graves, I don't see Iowa embracing being the rebel of the conference, so I think KF will tell Aaron, sorry, we just can't make this work.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
The Big 10 and SEC have both unanimously passed rules that would prevent Graves and similar guys from coming back to college after turning pro. LSU is the worst offender, so I will be interested in whether they challenge this. I doubt the school will. Hell, they have a kid coming in to play MBB that spend several years playing in the G league. The slippery slope of failed pros falling back to college is bad for the sport and the conferences are taking a hard line. While I would love to see Graves back in IC, overall, this is a good thing.

To answer a Swirl, I don't see any conference school challenging the rule. Their ADs/Presidents have agreed to the rule, so who at the school can challenge it? No, the schools will stay out of it.

But, the issue is not over. I mean, these kids sued the NCAA and were successful in getting injunctions. What is to stop them from suing the NCAA and the SEC in court to enjoin these rules? It could happen, but its getting awfully close to season start. I think the timing of this makes things difficult.

For Graves, I don't see Iowa embracing being the rebel of the conference, so I think KF will tell Aaron, sorry, we just can't make this work.
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Not sure but I've read that the SEC has some sort of by-law or rule that prevents a school from challenging something like this. Of course, that could be challenged but I really think this whole thing is dead now.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
The Big 10 and SEC have both unanimously passed rules that would prevent Graves and similar guys from coming back to college after turning pro. LSU is the worst offender, so I will be interested in whether they challenge this. I doubt the school will. Hell, they have a kid coming in to play MBB that spend several years playing in the G league. The slippery slope of failed pros falling back to college is bad for the sport and the conferences are taking a hard line. While I would love to see Graves back in IC, overall, this is a good thing.

To answer a Swirl, I don't see any conference school challenging the rule. Their ADs/Presidents have agreed to the rule, so who at the school can challenge it? No, the schools will stay out of it.

But, the issue is not over. I mean, these kids sued the NCAA and were successful in getting injunctions. What is to stop them from suing the NCAA and the SEC in court to enjoin these rules? It could happen, but its getting awfully close to season start. I think the timing of this makes things difficult.

For Graves, I don't see Iowa embracing being the rebel of the conference, so I think KF will tell Aaron, sorry, we just can't make this work.
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Yep, I was just responding to your post that the Big Ten rule doesn't really change anything in your opinion...which sort of surprised me. The link you included has info about the ADs and Presidents agreeing to it. But possible that article was also updated with that info after you posted it...
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
Yep, I was just responding to your post that the Big Ten rule doesn't really change anything in your opinion...which sort of surprised me. The link you included has info about the ADs and Presidents agreeing to it. But possible that article was also updated with that info after you posted it...
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What I meant was that it doesn't change anything from the athlete's perspective. If they want to run to a hometown judge and seek a TRO, now they have to sue the NCAA and the conference both to have their rules declared unenforceable. But, I do think these new rules will now change how aggressively the member schools pursue/support such efforts by the athletes. These schools don't give a shit about the NCAA. They do fear their own conference leadership. In both the SEC and the Big10 the Presidents/Regents voted unanimously for the rule. So, if you are an AD or coach, are you really going to thumb your nose at your boss' vote and publicly support bringing in a failed pro to your team?

Watch LSU. They are where the rubber will meet the road on this. They have already made plans to bring in failed pros in FB and MBB. And, while their president voted in favor of the rule, he abstained from the second vote authorizing severe penalties for those who violate. Hmmm. Why would they do that? :) I think LSU may officially stay out of the fight, but if a judge declares an athlete eligible to play, they may try to walk the line that they are merely following the court's order. Much like TT and the Big 12, I suspect that ultimately LSU will relent. But, Kiffin and the president and LA governor are all egomaniacs who are okay playing by a different set of rules. Grab your popcorn!!
 
NorthKCHawk said:
As the board lawyer here, what the 10th Circuit did was block an order allowing any player to return in Graves situation. In other words, nationwide permission to go back to school was withdrawn. What the 10th did not, and could not really do, is block kids from doing this. The Lousiana judge's ruling still stands and those guys are on campuses. I read that a kid who played at Missouri got a TRO and has joined Kentucky. So, as long as you can find a hometown state court judge, you can still lawyer your way into this.

I listened to LockedOn podcast Friday and they reported that Iowa did call Graves' agent. This still could happen. He is obviously in playing shape and knows the system. He could fly to IC tomorrow and be ready to be a starter. That all said, this doesn't feel like a very Iowa thing to do. But, all you need is a half mill in cash, a plugged in lawyer, and the will to make it happen. Come home, Aaron!!!!!!
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What area(s) of the law do you practice?
 
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