A positive spin on CJF Transfer

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
I expect that CJ will be a solid contributor to a good Kentucky team next year, maybe even a starter. This situation is similar to Isaiah Moss going to Kansas in some ways. They both seemed to want a change of scenery and were presented with an amazing collegiate BB opportunity. So, in the last couple years we have had two unheralded recruits come into the program, develop into very good players, and ultimately transfer out to two of the bluest of blue blood programs in the country. Programs that can get just about anyone they want. While the transfer part is concerning, in today's age, kids transfer and do what's best for themselves. Iowa is certainly not unique in experiencing this. My positive spin is that it once again shows that Fran is excellent at identifying talent that other coach's do not see, and developing that talent within his program. That, to me, is why Fran has had such a long and stable career. He obviously has not taken the final step by taking that talent deep into the tourney, but his credentials for developing talent and building a CLEAN, winning culture are pretty solid.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
I expect that CJ will be a solid contributor to a good Kentucky team next year, maybe even a starter. This situation is similar to Isaiah Moss going to Kansas in some ways. They both seemed to want a change of scenery and were presented with an amazing collegiate BB opportunity. So, in the last couple years we have had two unheralded recruits come into the program, develop into very good players, and ultimately transfer out to two of the bluest of blue blood programs in the country. Programs that can get just about anyone they want. While the transfer part is concerning, in today's age, kids transfer and do what's best for themselves. Iowa is certainly not unique in experiencing this. My positive spin is that it once again shows that Fran is excellent at identifying talent that other coach's do not see, and developing that talent within his program. That, to me, is why Fran has had such a long and stable career. He obviously has not taken the final step by taking that talent deep into the tourney, but his credentials for developing talent and building a CLEAN, winning culture are pretty solid.
Maybe that is something Fran can sell to future recruits....we are a developmental program for ultimately getting you to a place like Kansas or Kentucky if you put in the work and that is what you want. That could possibly attract more athletic talent in the short run.

But, dang Fran, try to get out of the first weekend for once with them at least while they are here. ;)
 

Hawkfnntn

Well-Known Member
Totally agree Frans rep should be all that you mentioned. He just can't quite put the full team together. Last yr was as close to it as he's been. They are always missing a piece or 2. Be it defense usually or a clutch player performing in the right moment it's just always something. But yeah Fran can't be disparaged for his evaluating of talent or even player development. Something the blue bloods don't have to prioritize. They just roll the ball out there.
 

ChosenChildren

Well-Known Member
Sorry, CJ isn't a big loss. Injuries prevented him from being a consistent scorer or defender.

He will be a role player at best for Kentucky.

Frankly, if your stated goal is to get to the Sweet 16 of the Big Dance, you aren't going to do it with this type of slow, oft-injured athlete. His departure opens things up a little bit for more athletic guards already on the roster.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
Fantastic...Iowa just became a minor league team. I'd rather have one and dones then see our program used as a junior college.
I don't think that is the intent, of course, and it misses the point of the post which is to note that Fran identifies and develops talent.

That said, even if we were debating Iowa becoming a feeder program, why not.? Many consider the Royals to be in that position. They bring up young talent and when they get too good and KC cannot afford them, they get bought by the Yankees or Dodgers or whoever. But, KC still went to back to back World Series under that model.

Talent is talent. You want to keep it if you can, but finding it is a rare skill and Fran has it.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
I don't think that is the intent, of course, and it misses the point of the post which is to note that Fran identifies and develops talent.

That said, even if we were debating Iowa becoming a feeder program, why not.? Many consider the Royals to be in that position. They bring up young talent and when they get too good and KC cannot afford them, they get bought by the Yankees or Dodgers or whoever. But, KC still went to back to back World Series under that model.

Talent is talent. You want to keep it if you can, but finding it is a rare skill and Fran has it.
True, my concern though is when your known to be a developmental program you can't consistently lose those players that you've finally developed if your going to make a splash.
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
True, my concern though is when your known to be a developmental program you can't consistently lose those players that you've finally developed if your going to make a splash.
Been a pretty rare event so far. Your point is well taken if you refer to future transfer rules concerns. I still think the new rule will slow down after the “free” year due to Covid goes away. Hope so, anyway.
 

kicker22

Well-Known Member
Been a pretty rare event so far. Your point is well taken if you refer to future transfer rules concerns. I still think the new rule will slow down after the “free” year due to Covid goes away. Hope so, anyway.

You're right. I was referring to the new transfer rules/concerns. The landscaping of collegiate sports is changing rapidly. Hopefully the portal slows down once we find a new normal and covid is behind us.
 

SomersHawk

Well-Known Member
While this may be a repeat of things already said, a healthy CJ playing well and hitting daggers was fun and a nice asset to the team, but what percent of the games did that actually occur? Unfortunately he was a shell of himself the last half of the season and unable to contribute a whole lot.

So although he could have been, it's not like we lost a major contributor from the team that came down the stretch run and was a top 5 team. The big loses from THAT team are Luka and most likely JW.
 

gillnh2o

Member
I have followed basketball since the Don Nelson era and I find it amusing that I never heard of developmental programs in football and basketball before Fran and now Fran.
Although he disliked recruiting Ralph Miller could bring in Jucos routinely that were ready to play. At my age I am getting a little impatient with the Cubs syndrome of wait til next year as my next years are getting slim to none.
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
I don't think that is the intent, of course, and it misses the point of the post which is to note that Fran identifies and develops talent.

That said, even if we were debating Iowa becoming a feeder program, why not.? Many consider the Royals to be in that position. They bring up young talent and when they get too good and KC cannot afford them, they get bought by the Yankees or Dodgers or whoever. But, KC still went to back to back World Series under that model.

Talent is talent. You want to keep it if you can, but finding it is a rare skill and Fran has it.
The Royals went to back to back world series because they had young contract controllable talent, like Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas, Sal Perez and Lorenzo Cain. And because their killer bullpen shortened games to 21 or even 18 outs.

But I do remember when they would develop players and then lose them when they could no longer afford them. Players like Jeff Conine and Sean Berry.
 

BigD

Well-Known Member
I have followed basketball since the Don Nelson era and I find it amusing that I never heard of developmental programs in football and basketball before Fran and now Fran.
Although he disliked recruiting Ralph Miller could bring in Jucos routinely that were ready to play. At my age I am getting a little impatient with the Cubs syndrome of wait til next year as my next years are getting slim to none.
Amen brother!!! When I hear developmental program over and over again I want to vomit!
It actually started with football.

Premier coaches will recruit premier players regardless of where they coach. Pay a premier coach a premier salary and they will come a build a premier program.

The powers that be have to want that. Those people don’t reside at the University of Iowa with the exception of the wrestling program. The wrestling program is not in the top two programs for generating income at Iowa so the powers that be are willing to let that one slip on by.

Ive said this before and I will say it again. The current nerd branch of University of Iowa would never chance bringing in the type of personality that could be come so popular and successful that said coach would be calling the shots and not the nerds.
It’s a power control thing.

Iowa has the income to afford any basketball or football coach they want. You are seeing what they want. Not necessarily a bad thing from a character point of view. Both coaches have been adequate for what the were looking for. Fran had to learn to cool it a little with his wild outburst, but now that he is doing ok with that h count on a life time contract from here on out.

Again not a bad image as both coaches seem to be running clean programs. The cost however is having to accept the fact that neither coaches have the ability to ever win a National Title and apparently not even a Big Ten title for the University of Iowa.

Really comes down to what’s really important. Moderately successful programs the endow character and integrity or a little less lacking in those areas for the sake of having a real shot at a conference title which then opens the door to a national title.

I personally would t truly enjoy winning a championship if it meant crooked underhanded recruiting or other forms of cheating. I would only enjoy it if was done in a moral way.

It’s hard to admit defeat to that hope but that is where both programs are at. It also doesn’t help to just compare ourselves to the little girls team in Ames. For some maybe they are happy with just being able to beat up their little sister in Ames every year, but I get little enjoyment from that.

Would just like to Iowa Kick the Shit out of the bullies and crooked programs just once in my lifetime.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
I don’t think CJ was unheralded as a recruit, he was considered to be one of the top recruits in Kentucky and won the Gatorade POY.
He came on late and did get a couple Power 5 offers at the end, I think maybe from Penn State. He was originally going to walk on at Iowa instead of going with a mid major schollie. So, certainly when Fran identified him and through almost all of his high school career he was not a High D1 recruit.
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
He came on late and did get a couple Power 5 offers at the end, I think maybe from Penn State. He was originally going to walk on at Iowa instead of going with a mid major schollie. So, certainly when Fran identified him and through almost all of his high school career he was not a High D1 recruit.

So it doesn’t count because he came on late? Was he or was he not one of the top recruits in Kentucky and did he not win the POY?

247 had him ranked 3rd in his state with an offer from Indiana along with PSU and Butler showing interest.
 

NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
So it doesn’t count because he came on late? Was he or was he not one of the top recruits in Kentucky and did he not win the POY?

247 had him ranked 3rd in his state with an offer from Indiana along with PSU and Butler showing interest.
I guess it is just not the point I am making in this thread. CJ was not a highly sought after recruit when Fran first identified him and recruited him to come to Iowa (and yes, Fran had a connection to CJ's family). After he was essentially in the fold, he had a strong senior campaign and drew the attention of a couple other D1 programs. I would still not describe him as a "heralded" recruit by any stretch. POY in Kentucky is a nice honor, but a late offer from a middling Indiana program, along with Butler and PSU is not exactly the second coming of Harrison Barnes.

But again, my overall point is that Fran is good at identifying under the radar recruits and developing them into very good college basketball players. I think CJ fits that concept.
 
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